Updates

Changes to Leagues and matchmaking: June 2017

Next War Robots ranked season starts on June 1st. We’ve prepared some changes for it, including some things that many of you asked for.

Please note that this is still not our final stop. Leagues and matchmaking keep being subject to further improvements, so as usual, let us know what you think!

 

New rating point distribution

Short version: you can go up in rating even if you lose!

Long version: the best way to describe our reasoning for this change is just to paraphrase what we said in our community meeting round-up:

We’re coming back to the previous post-match league point distribution, where top 2 players from losing team get points instead of losing them. Why? With new distribution we tried to enforce “be a good team player to go higher” idea before introducing proper communication tools to foster teamwork — and it didn’t quite work out. Most people basically stopped moving between divisions, being stuck in one place. Previous distribution did much better job in splitting differently tiered pilots between their respective leagues.

 

Amount of ranking points depends on battle results and your position in post-battle rankings. Pilots from winning team will always be on the plus side. However not just them, but also two players with highest performance in a losing team will go up in rating. 

Starting from June 1st post-combat distribution of rating points will look like this (exact numbers might change):

Win    Lose

+13    +7

+10    +3

+7    -5

+4    -11

+3    -17

+2    -22

 

More points for beacon control

 

Short version: capture beacons to get slightly more rating points!

Long version: there will be extra rating points for 3 happy pilots (+3, +2 and +1, respectively) who captured most beacons among all the 12 players from both teams. 

Pilots with equal amount of beacons will be sorted by amount of damage they dealt. Say, you and your teammate captured three beacons each, but you inflicted more pain to the enemy than your companion did. That means, you’ll get your 3 bonus points and he’ll get 2. 

If you play in a squad, rating points will still be distributed evenly among all teammates, and that includes beacon bonuses. Points are always rounded upwards: average 5.5 will always turn into 6 for everyone.

 

Tanking protection improvements

Short version: no more newbies in tanker queue, actual tankers receive less good stuff!

Long version: yes. People in leaver queue will start receiving less XP, silver and gold. Much less — up until there will be no benefit in intentional match tanking. People marked as tankers will also stop receiving and losing league points up until they properly finish certain amount of matches and get out of their special territory.

We’re also excluding people who have not yet reached level 15 out of the tanker queue. Such players usually turned into easy prey for seasoned leavers, so it makes a lot of sense to give newbies some penalty-free time to adapt.

 

 

Improved matchmaking algorithm for Champions

Short version: faster matchmaking for people in Champion league. That’s it

Long version: that’s really it. But here’s how it’ll work in case if you’re wondering.

The key problem of Champion league is a huge rating disparity between players. In the same league different players could have 5000, 8000 or even 13000 rating points. And matchmaking works the same way there as in other leagues: taking, say, our 13000 point player and slowly increasing the range in which it finds his teammates and opponents. First, 12990 to 13010. Then, second later, 12980 to 13020. And so on.

It is obvious that with such approach matchmaking can take forever sometimes. To address this we change how matchmaking system perceives all the points above 5000. Basically, we’re shrinking them tenfold. Say, 13000 turns into 5000 + (13000 – 5000)/10 = 5800 in the eyes of the algorithm, and 8000 makes 5000 + (8000-5000)/10 = 5300.

Numbers are not necessarily precise, but that’ll do to illustrate the principle. This way players in the Champion league will find each other much faster, without changes to the actual rating system. We also expect to see more Champions appearing after the change to rating points distribution, so there will naturally be more people to play with.

Categories: Updates

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  • Andrea Pacifico

    will people know they are in the leaver’s queue?, because right now there is a lot of confusion!

  • Jacob Hojonski

    can you gold mine please?

  • Don Omar

    That’s ok not good but ok to get points for 1st and 2ed,but you forget about GOLD why don’t you give for the first and second gold too,will be very fare for good players,Their fight will not go for nothing.

  • Dwane Bowen

    OK, I get the whole idea of the loser”s league, but I still think you need to make a better decision as to who is placed into it and why. I’m in the dungeon because I left maps I didn’t find interesting or boring, before the initial count down completed, thinking that mm would continue to find players. I never quit in the middle of a game, or just sat there and played a fiddle while your team burned lie Rome.

    But, loser”s league banishment is where I’m at. But no one was ever told the criteria for getting there. At least you could have explained the particulars, when you instituted the loser”s league. I think it”s a valid distinction between cretins who abandoned teams in the middle of matches, and people who thought they were following the rules and gameplay. I mean, why else have a timer wind down once you were in a match…?

  • Dominic Claveau

    For me, this decision is a step backward. It’s as if you said : We tried to foster teamwork without giving you actual in game means to act as a team, so screw teamwork!

    I don’t care about getting +1, 2 or 3 points if I’m losing between 11 and 22 because I’m the only one running around, capturing beacons and shooting less. Now, encouraging people to go for highest damage regardless of their teammates means beacon cappers with bots that have less firepower are punished for playing them. That, combined with the overabundance of protection, means that trading firepower for speed is an even less attractive choice since punching through anciles or physical shield require lots of firepower…

    You know what, stop fooling around and remove the beacons altogether and turn this game into a mindless, tacticless pure Pay-to-Win DPS shooter game. You seem intent on going that way while trying to hide it.

    You got me spending new bucks during your event because your last couple of moves (improved Rog, moon map, improved firearms, having league points rewarding winning team) were pretty sharp. But now, I’m back to no more spending on either premium or gold.

    I wish you the best of luck!

  • Benjamin Gandhi-Shepard

    As always, I love how hard you all work to make this game work for it’s users and as a successful business model. That said, I would like to respectfully disagree with two issues above. First, the point ratings. Negative points is the single most disturbing issue here. Giving positive points to the top loser, yet negative points to the lower losers is just going to create camping/dmg players again. So the goal again becomes to do max dmg, not to do teamwork. These negative points are killing the game in my opinion. There is less solo play to reduce point hemorrhaging. There is less experimentation to reduce point hemorrhaging. There is less squadding with lower players to reduce point hemorrhaging. Losing points has become a huge source of concern and anxiety in this game. I’m just pointing this out.

    Second, the beacons rating. Rating beacons needs to be on par with DMG. I know this isn’t going to happen for this release, but it’s something to consider in the future. I made a video about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVT7CTqLrUw

    Thanks for the updates, consideration and hard work! Best game ever. Stay awesome!

  • Erick Quiñónez

    Totally agree, i even think that beacons must be rewarded with gold for winner team, and leagues point for loser (but more than 3, 2 or 1)

  • Kevin Mayberry

    Sigh… Here we go again. I play maybe 30 minutes a day and then get frustrated or bored. I used to play for 6 hours or more. I’m not spending any money either. Good luck with all that.

  • COBRA

    I agree completely. The +3, 2, 1 rewards for beacons are not even remotely on par with the -22, -17, -11 penalties on the losing team. With everyone getting negative points when losing in the current system, everyone is *forced* to run beacons for the win, since majority of battles are won by beacon domination.

    With the new proposed system, this is not true anymore. Why would I even try getting max beacons, reducing my dmg chances so I can finish last in a losing effort? All this to get +3 for beacons, but -22 for losing and finish with low dmg for a whooping total of -19. This is completely broken. This will motivate camping and max dmg, since win or lose, you get a positive rewards.

    You truly need to run this by a behavioral economist to establish an appropiate set of incentives. I am sorry to say, but you are not very good at it and you keep doing trial an error semi-blindly.

  • Free turk

    I fully heartidly agree with the changes. Let’s force people to catch beacons. You can still do damage and receive your pints, but knife fighters do more than just sniping in the background.

  • Ion Munteanu

    Wow, super cool _ _/ -m/

  • Fred Simpson

    Dropping the negative points would be a great improvement. Reward winners and leave losers as they were. Eliminating penalties for badly mismatched games with no chance of winning would be a huge improvement to league play. Here is an example that occurs all to often! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b5f2b7eda1bbbd9a4777c8c68409e82142665ef2a9666e7f50b12fc57ebd9cfc.jpg

  • BHShaman

    People will start sitting again.
    Go for beacons and risk being bottom for – 19 while going for territory win.. Or just load upnon damage to make sure you don’t get a negative… I know which direction I will be going.

  • BHShaman

    And why should you be allowed to stack your hanger for spwcific maps with no penalty? Best pilot ranking is for the best overall pilots. Not just brawler who take short map or sniper who take long.

  • THOR

    Players DON’T care about rating points. They care about GOLD REWARDS. When are you going to understand this??? The tankers, seal clubbing, LQ etc. problems were created because players want to make GOLD. Is it so difficult for you to understand???

    Make it possible to receive more gold for beacon capturing, team play for the winner team and also on the TOP 3 players on the losing team and you won’t have any problems or people exploiting your system.
    EXAMPLE:

    Winner team:
    1st on damage = 5gold
    2nd on damage = 3gold
    3rd on damage = 1gold

    The same for beacon capturing
    1st most captured beacons = 5gold
    2nd most captured beacons = 3gold
    3rd most captured beacons = 1gold

    The losing team with less rewards:
    1st on damage = 3gold
    2nd on damage = 2gold
    3rd on damage = 1gold

  • Antonius Blanks

    This is a step backwards. No different from the system you had at the beginning. +1, 2, or 3 is irrelevant when compared to – 11, 17 or 22. The only usable strategy in this system is ignore beacons, maximize damage and not care about winning. It will kill team play.

  • Facundo Loredo

    please buff rhino

  • Alex Smith

    Beacons need better gold and silver rewards, not more stupid league points. All this means is that capping hangars will get pushed up too fast and end up getting melted

  • Antonius Blanks

    Here is what I’d propose for a new system – Keep the base +/- as it is: from +18 to +12 for wins and -12 to -18 for losses. But add a beacon modifier of +3 per beacon up to a max of +12 for the losing team only. This way players have to win to advance in the league system, but beacon capping can help minimize the downward slide on losses.

    For example if a player loses and take 3rd in damage and caps no beacons he gets -15. If hes caps 1 beacon he gets -12, if he caps 2 beacons he gets -9, if he cap 3 beacons he gets -6, and he will get -3 if he caps 4 or more beacons.

  • Dwane Bowen

    Don’t know anyone who does. I’m almost always at 3 heavy, 2 med, 1 light. Have to be ready for any map. My point was that these rules were made without notification, and thhat there is a difference between leaving in the middle of a battle, which I did not, and leaving a map before the battle started, while teams were still under construction.

  • Luis Cieza

    Please fix the problem where the game hangs and does not allow you to continue playing. It is desperate that the game is hanging you 3 times in a row and so you lose interest in playing. Please fix that problem.

  • Jerrald Yere Tuibeo

    Please, put some gold rewards for the top 2 lose team. 3 and 2 golds will do.

  • Tmoney Shot

    So beacons still really don’t matter…if I focus on winning but my team loses then i get to lose 3 less points. So…the only way to ensure not losing league points is to go all in for damage.
    Guess I will continue to say ‘fuck my league status’, play to win and forever be stuck in expert. At least that way all the douchebags that run Ancilots and Trident/Fury can get their high damage scores and progress to Champion/Legend. I can stay in Expert and play with like-minded players that want to have fun and not just spend hundreds of dollars to max out lame af hangers full of Ancilots to get max damage because hopefully all those asshats will keep climbing the league tier and can have mindless Orkan/Trident orgies in Champion and Legend.

  • THOR

    Give more gold rewards for capturing beacons! Match players with similar WEAPONS and ROBOTS.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/477da88963583de6d88dd8ec8baa830090746bf0c5bbcb6eaec04d5fe8cd6436.jpg

  • 김규

    What if some people have to leave the with specific reasons? Ex: i was going somewhere but i have to leave a match.

  • F J Brincat

    First and foremost, thanks for the updates. I appreciate that you try to improve the game. However beacon capers need proper rewards systems of their own. Au not league points. I appreciate that you make money off gold sales but giving a bit more gold to beacon cappers on both sides will be an incentive.

    Also, tankers and clubbers should be made to forfeit gold and silver winnings in games played much below their tier status. They should not enjoy rewards gained by exploiting loopholes in the game.

  • Robert Davidson

    Like this idea, but don’t the positive and negative points need to be balanced?
    I also like the idea that winning team top cappers get gold and losing team get silver, though I haven’t gotten all level 12 items yet. I suspect that once I do, I’d rather have the league points.

  • Robert Davidson

    Speaking of ways to communicate, how nice would it be to signal for help or designate a recommended target?

  • Jerimey Peyton

    Hey I don’t know why it’s so hard to explain to you people who are developing this game that becons are just as important as damage and should be giving points equal to the number of becons they take not a flat rate of +3 or +2 +1 I have players on my team who are at the bottom of the damage list but take 12 beacons in A round and they should not end up still being -19 points if they lose this is stupid and unfair I would much rather have someone taking beacons then going for kills

  • Kevin Benoit

    MATCHMAKER PROBLEMS AND PROPOSED SOLUTION:
    Problems:
    With the current system, “leaver’s league” is the only way my clan/friends can play together and have any chance at winning or having fun. With matchmaking based on league points instead of hangar strengths, the champion league guys in the clan can’t play with any of the lower-tiered players because it drags all of us up into champion games where the lower-league guys get slaughtered and can’t help at all. This results in neither the champion nor the lower-league players wanting to play because we can’t play together/have fun. With the previous system, we were all able to pick hangars of similar strength so we could all play together and have fun. Not so with the current matchmaker. The old system also made it more fun in that we could pick hangars with varied bots of similar strengths and be paired fairly against other players with similar hangar strengths, but now it’s 12/12 Lancelots or lose. The only real problems with the old system was that a single good robot in the hangar would throw you into a high “tier” (before leagues) and that the tiers were so rigid, allowing a player to ride the very top of the tier with the best hangar allowed, slaughtering most everyone.
    SOLUTION???:
    A possible compromise to these two flawed matchmakers would be having a number generated from your weapon/robot strength in your hangar and matching battles based on this number AND MAKE THE NUMBER VISIBLE!!! Then our clan members and friends can set up hangars with similar numbers and play with one another <3 the numbers could be different for every weapon and bot at every level, based on their strengths.

  • Kevin Benoit

    MATCHMAKER PROBLEMS AND PROPOSED SOLUTION:
    Problems:
    With the current system, “leaver’s league” is the only way my clan/friends can play together and have any chance at winning or having fun. With matchmaking based on league points instead of hangar strengths, the champion league guys in the clan can’t play with any of the lower-tiered players because it drags all of us up into champion games where the lower-league guys get slaughtered and can’t help at all. This results in neither the champion nor the lower-league players wanting to play because we can’t play together/have fun. With the previous system, we were all able to pick hangars of similar strength so we could all play together and have fun. Not so with the current matchmaker. The old system also made it more fun in that we could pick hangars with varied bots of similar strengths and be paired fairly against other players with similar hangar strengths, but now it’s 12/12 Lancelots or lose. The only real problems with the old system was that a single good robot in the hangar would throw you into a high “tier” (before leagues) and that the tiers were so rigid, allowing a player to ride the very top of the tier with the best hangar allowed, slaughtering most everyone.
    SOLUTION???:
    A possible compromise to these two flawed matchmakers would be having a number generated from your COMBINED (not your best) weapon/robot strength in your hangar, matching battles based on this number, AND MAKE THE NUMBER VISIBLE!!! Then our clan members and friends can set up hangars with similar numbers and play with one another <3 the numbers could be different for every weapon and bot at every level, based on their strengths.

  • Kevin Benoit

    MATCHMAKER PROBLEMS AND PROPOSED SOLUTION:
    Problems:
    With the current system, “leaver’s league” is the only way my clan/friends can play together and have any chance at winning or having fun. With matchmaking based on league points instead of hangar strengths, the champion league guys in the clan can’t play with any of the lower-tiered players because it drags all of us up into champion games where the lower-league guys get slaughtered and can’t help at all. This results in neither the champion nor the lower-league players wanting to play because we can’t play together/have fun. In Leaver’s League, it gives a decent mix of strong and weak players that allows us to have at least a chance at winning even if our randoms quit. With the previous system, we were all able to pick hangars of similar strength so we could all play together and have fun. Not so with the current matchmaker. The old system also made it more fun in that we could pick hangars with varied bots of similar strengths and be paired fairly against other players with similar hangar strengths, but now it’s 12/12 Lancelots or lose. The only real problems with the old system was that a single good robot in the hangar would throw you into a high “tier” (before leagues) and that the tiers were so rigid, allowing a player to ride the very top of the tier with the best hangar allowed, slaughtering most everyone.
    SOLUTION???:
    A possible compromise to these two flawed matchmakers would be having a number generated from your COMBINED (not your best) weapon/robot strength in your hangar, matching battles based on this number, AND MAKE THE NUMBER VISIBLE!!! Then our clan members and friends can set up hangars with similar numbers and play with one another ❤ the numbers could be different for every weapon and bot at every level, based on their strengths.

  • Dhruv

    How did u have 6 bots in your hangar? If its a typo, then please share the correct distribution of light, mid and heavies for noobs like me! Thanks

  • Dhruv

    What about casual mode? When is that going to be introduced? Not all of us want to compete for league points in every match. Sometimes we just wanna run lighter bots like vitz, boa and all which are not competitive, without being penalised by the league system for playing them.

  • Dwane Bowen

    DOH! Sorry, 5 slots. My usual line up is a Stalker or a Jesse, to try to get beacons. I don’t really see a lot of people try, but they’re out there. Two Carnage, one with autocannon, one with Thunders. A Galahad, or Fury, or Leo (or the Butch when I get him pointed up), and a Lancelot with either plasma or Orkan, and either a Thunder or Ancile.

    Sometimes things come together, and sometimes you take it in the shorts.

  • Ho Hua Ze

    Do you know that some players who are leaving the match, they want to avoid their points to be higher and higher until they cannot play it because of their level of robots and weapons?When they reach high leagues, it is difficult for them to earn golds and silver for buying and upgrading their robots and weapons although they are 30 level.
    I hope u can think about this truth.That’s all,thank you

  • a_spade_is_a_spade

    Unfortunately this has ignored the main concern of the Round Table Discussions. Almost all of your players confirmed that weapon level NEEDS to be factored into Matchmaking. Why are there so few people in Master and above? Because they’ve ALREADY tanked to Diamond and Gold league (even Silver league) with their lvl 11/12 hangers. This matchmaking doesn’t fix the problem, as all the tankers need to do is to stay put where they already are. Personally, I am tired of fighting games in Diamond league with lvl 8/9 hangar that I know within 30 seconds I have no chance of winning. Don’t believe it’s a problem? This picture says it all… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c795d53e1bd699ea7231d1f543fa1ee10fadac7ecf911dbf23fcb63822b7d9b5.png

  • Teddy Cheng

    agreed almost of the changes except the so called tankers..how could u say if a players a tanker without questioning them..for example me i never leave or abandon a battle specially with my clan..your company keeps developing or upgrading bots,weapons & maps but keeps forgetting some issues..last month I’m experiencing 10 crashed game per day&also sending you guys 10 screenshots same also per day..unluckily didnt recieve any solutions on this mattet..i know not only me having this problem coz been seeing some team mates or allies just died after spawning…Now here’s a question to your company Pixonic am i considered a so called tanker that you mentioned

  • Antonius Blanks

    The points don’t need to balance for any reason other than the fact that the developers arbitrarily decided that they should balance.

    As for non-league rewards you are always going to need more and more silver. As soon as you get a maxed hanger you like they will introduce a new weapon or manipulate the balance to make you want to max something else.

  • Antonius Blanks

    Your advice is spot on. The developers need to study how and why people get hooked on games because they clearly don’t understand how demotivating the current meta is for many players.

  • Tim Coggins

    If I am reading this correctly then once you hit diamond you are pretty much done. Diamond will still be matched in a lumped group with master, expert and champion. So if you rank 2400 you will be matched against those ranking 8000+. The guys that are doing this seriously need to quit just programming the game and start actually playing it.

  • Tim Coggins

    Been in a number of matches that I capped 6 beacons and the rest of the squad combined got 1. That said with the hanger that you are running I would not expect to win many battles. A good hanger needs to have some balance. Also, it doesn’t do a lot of good to cap a beacon if you can’t defend it.

  • Donald Cornell

    I agree with the point of this post.

  • Donald Cornell

    Peope have been sitting. Some have been beacon hogs, especaly at the start. I find it rare to win withoutateast three beacons. Since you can recaptures beacon fighting may not appeal to some. Youhave to be in it to win it, mod around, buddy up with another player. Successful teams fight in groups and slaughter enemies. What’s the point of hiding or leaving if you lose the battle?

  • Robert Davidson

    If the points balance it creates a ladder – you have to be better than other people (either through skill or equipment) to advance. If the points don’t balance they aren’t as accurate an indicator of your strength, but more of how long you have been playing.

    True about needing more silver – I think I am several months out from maxing anything.

  • Just the Tip

    Stupid to penalize the Leaver Pool. These players will just rejoin the regular players but find new ways to intentionally lose matches. It’s best for the health of the game to keep them separate but equal.

  • Just the Tip

    Is your IGN Rockwelder? Because you sound & look just like his online persona.

  • Xi Yang

    The idea about using leagues points to matching players is totally wrong!

    #1 First, this game is level-based not skill-based. So use a matching rules like other skill-based games to match WR players are not just unfair, it’s ridiculous.
    #2 Second, it’s easy to predict the future of all players in leagues: be stucked in one level for a very long time and the victory rate become 50%! That’s a terrible dark future for all players , just like death. Anybody will leave a game without future.

    We should use level-based MM again. But not the old one.
    #1 We can provide a bar to show players hangar power which they will know how to adjust their equipment to match the tier they want (You can’t stop people to get the right tier, see tankers. The problem is at MM system not people). For example, you can show 2 bars : weapon damage bar and robot durability bar, if the 2 bars at different tiers, then match player by the higher one. For example, the weapon damage bar at gold tier, the robot durability bar at silver tier, then put this player at gold tier. That will push players to upgrade robots.
    #2 The higher tier you at the higher golds you gain. It will push player to climb up the tier, not to stay at one tier.
    #3 It will be a good tool for you (PIX) to adjust the weapon or robots attributes, not just by feedback. It’s more accurate.

    How about the leagues system?
    #1 We can keep the leagues system as a reward like the best pilot task before.
    #2 Use league points to measure clan rank. Then we can know what clan is the best clan. The best clan not equals to the most active clan!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/43bfadf7986d8d61870a56cf4e01ce87eb69901af59cb7af4d63a0b6d31dda55.png

  • DirtyDuckofDoom

    -22 points for being in last place if you lose seems a bit steep. War Robots crashes quite frequently on my phone and it’s not rare that I rank a bit on the low side because of it. I can only imagine myself losing rank over time because of this. I thought the old match making where players were matched by robot/weapons level not how many trophies they have.

  • Antonius Blanks

    I don’t follow your logic. How does having the points balance make it a measure of skill in a way that is ruined by not having the points balance? Sure what I am suggesting will make more points available and this will help more people move towards champion league, but is this a bad thing?

    If for some reason the numbers above result in people advancing too fast, just change the per game range from +/- 12 to 18 with 3 points per beacon to +/- 8 to 12 with 2 points per beacon. The system also resets every month so there is an opportunity to address imbalances there too.

    As for time in game, there is always going to be a high correlation between the amount people play and their ranking. You should have to play a lot AND win to rise in the system.
    What is in dispute is the metrics Pixonic should use to identify “good” players.

    And lets be clear, good in this context is completely arbitrary. As of June 1 a camper who focuses ONLY on damage, who never goes after beacons, and has a 0% win percentage will be considered an excellent player worthy of advancement up the ladder.

    In the system I am proposing you can’t advance if you don’t win, but you can minimize the pain from losing by adopting an aggressive, play to win, beacon-centric style.

  • Heathen Cat

    More gimmickry? Already got too many overpowered anciles and shields in the game. Now they want to add bots so fast they are in the enemy’s spawns before all their players can drop. And add a movement that makes it far more than difficult to target a bot than it already is in many cases. Why not just buy the rights to the name Armored Core and be done with it already? Pixonic is taking what was once a decent mechs vs mechs game and loading it with far too much gimmickry and crap.

    We just want more bots, variations on what we have would be great.
    More maps of every size, not just melee maps that encourage spawn camping like no others.
    More weapons based on what is likely and not on pure fantasy.
    And a solo player match making system based on the bots and equipment in our showing hangers and not our inventories. Just average out the upgrade levels of all the slots a player has according to robots and weapons separately. If you change up your hanger you could be looking at a whole different group of players in your matches. Ones with similarly averaged out hangers. You could be playing a 1/1 bot and a 12/12 bot in the same hanger and get a total hanger average of anywhere between 2/2 and 11/11. That is any variation thereof. It’s so simple a severely brain damaged retarded monkey could do it while drunk, smoking crack and shooting heroin.

  • Heathen Cat

    Oh yes, if you fix the damned match making system as I and many others have suggested and dropped that stupid ranking system we have at present we wouldn’t need any Leavers Queue at all. A solo player would only be able to play with other solo players of the same hanger averages in matches no matter what they tried to do. No more tanking and taking advantage of lesser upgraded players for Au and Ag. Damn but ya’ll are dense. This is so very simple yet you make it appear to be so very hard by dragging in even crappier ideas.

  • Robert Davidson

    Having league points balance means that as one person rises, another falls. This means you have to be better than everybody in Silver in order to get into Gold. Players will advance to their level and stay there until they get better equipment or figure out better tactics. Some players may never get to Champions. In the case you propose, every time someone is on a winning team, they advance. This means everyone gets to Champions if they play enough games, no matter how good of a pilot they are. Whether you think that is a bad thing depends on whether you want the bronze/silver/gold etc levels to indicate player strength or player longevity.

    I think tweaking the formula to distribute league points from players who do not cap to players who do would be more effective at making people more interested in capping. Gold for winning and silver for losing max cappers would help too. I’d also like to see average beacons capped/game as a profile metric like avg robots destroyed/game. This would help when choosing people for squads.

  • Antonius Blanks

    “This means everyone gets to Champions if they play enough games, no matter how good of a pilot they are.” No true. In order to advance you have to win more than lose and the points you gain on wins have to out weigh the points you lose on losses. For that you need to rank high in damage and/or be an aggressive beacon capper. There will be more points available but they still have to be earned.

    It will be very easy to drop if you lose a lot and don’t prioritize beacons. Really no different from what we have now and what we will have after June 1. Just more of an emphasis on beacons.

    There is really no need for the points to balance.

  • Robert Davidson

    This is very similar, but more generous than what Pixonic proposes: “there will be extra rating points for 3 happy pilots (+3, +2 and +1, respectively) who captured most beacons among all the 12 players from both teams.” Instead of paying per beacon, they are paying for the best beacon cappers.

  • Justyn Gengarkun Durnford

    I have a couple of comments.
    First off, we’re just going backwards now. I personally don’t think that players with a 40% win rate should be in the top 10 players, because that was what was happening. So that’s good to you?

    Second, I like the whole points for beacons. It will rewards those who both go for damage AND beacons.

    Third, -22 points?! That’s a little unfair.

    Fourth, I like the new punishment against tankers, but there is still no REAL incentive to go up leagues.

    And lastly, and most importantly: STOP FOCUSING ON LEAGUES AND FIX YOUR GAME. There are TONS of people complaining to you about the game crashing or freezing, and you said that it was your top priority to fix. So why are you talking about leagues WHEN ALL WE WANT IS A PLAYABLE GAME?

    Before you release new content to “balance” the game more (which is a whole other discussion), you need to smothen your game and it’s performance. I would at least have a quality adjuster in the main menu.

    So yeah. That’s the end of my rant. Please take this into consideration.

  • Heathen Cat

    You think these ranks are actually showing who the better pilots are? If that were the case it would be based on individual skill and accomplishments and not based on the randomness of 5 other players. This league ranking system is a joke. There are no permanent teams so it is pointless. Your league ranking is pure luck of the draw from match to match. I say that because I’ve been pulled up 5 whole “ranks” in a day while doing the least to contribute to the team wins and losses. The next day I changed my hanger and got top 2 marks for most of my matches and fell 5 whole “ranks” back to where I started. Pure randomness. Pure frustration.

    We need a ranking system which actually shows us what kinds of pilots we really are. One based on what we do as individuals like nearly any other game with a ranking system has. You could then distinguish who the best pilots really are. For example you might be the best pilot of a Galahad upgraded to a certain level but a mediocre pilot of a Leo upgraded to a certain level. Or the worst pilot in a Cossack. All this current ranking system does is show you who has the highest upgrades for the most part.

  • Heathen Cat

    Been in it since before the birthday events. Been doing EXACTLY as instructed to get out to no avail everyday since.

  • Heathen Cat

    Alright, I admit that when I posted before I was pretty well pissed off. But who wouldn’t be after being left in the LQ for weeks while doing as instructed to get out for the same period of time? But I’ll refrain from using the impaired monkey references.

    But I still have some suggestions. Some that could eliminate the need for any LQ in the first place if you’ll read with an open mind…

    1. Drop the current ranking which doesn’t show us who the better pilots are but just shows who has the most upgrades for the most part.

    Reasons: Team based ranking is pointless if you don’t have the same team members at all times who are using the same equipment at all times. And who but a very rare few can do that in a consistent manner every single time they play?

    Give us a ranking system which shows us our individual hits, scores, skills and accomplishments at every player level. Like those in nearly every other game out there. That way there could be many champions, experts and such for piloting each bot type at every level.
    For example you could be an Expert Cossack/5 pilot while being a Silver Boa/6 pilot, a Gold Leo/4 pilot, etc., etc..
    You’d be giving folks a variety of goals to shoot for.
    You could then determine who the true champions are and pit them against each other in teams or individually. Rewards, well that can be up to Pixonic.

    2. Implement a hanger based match making system.

    Reasons: Noone would be placed into a solo match any longer with players having a hanger average not unlike their own. This would eliminate the ability to tank and be placed with players having lesser upgrades for the express purpose of taking advantage of lesser upgraded player.

    How: Take whatever a player has showing in their hanger(not their inventories) and average it out by upgrades and bot sizes.

    Example: A 3 slot hanger having a Leo/8, Galahad/10 and a Stalker/9. Your bot average becomes Medium/9. This translates through to 5 slot hangers just as easily.

    This could be done for weapons as well but if you wanted to simplify it to just averaging bots then players would be pretty much forced to keep their weapons upgrades at or above their bots’ upgrade levels.

    3. Add more robots. Variants on existing models welcome.

    4. Add more maps of all sizes.

    5. Add friendly health indicators and drop the name tags of enemy players for bot identification tags instead.

    6. Add stalking and hunting to the game. Have the enemy location indicators disappear from our screens when a player fi ds sufficient cover and cannot be seen by any enemy bots.

    Reasons: Because no radar should be powerful enough to see through everything. Because it would change the dynamic of the game in a very significant way. Players would have to pay more attention to their surroundings or risk being truly flanked. As is you can see exactly where every enemy is at all times. Makes the job of the light to medium bots of flanking very difficult, especially on the larger maps where there is no cover.

    This is simple stuff and is exactly what so many have been asking for for so very long now. Your players would be happy and enjoy the game even more. Very few are happy with the existing system. It’s too complicated and far too random. It needs a complete overhaul and not a bunch of tweaks and useless fixes.

    If you can’t take a little criticism of the existing system then you shouldn’t be hosting an open party dialogue. But I think you want the feedback so that you can make a better game for everyone and make money doing it. So run these ideas through the wringer and see if they aren’t worth anything please. I’ve been doing my research too and this is what I’ve found will make the most players happy.

  • Dhruv

    Thank you 🙂

  • Nostradamus

    You take away my silver earnings while I’m paying for premium and don’t want to play Springfield and canyon, I’m getting a refund.

  • Oan Zia

    Lovely game, can’t wait for update! P.’s. You should icrease rhe amount of gold for winners

  • M4rk1m

    If they are actually punishing leaving people, they shud make a way for people to choose map.
    I dont leave to farm, i leave coz i hate playing with campers. So why do i have to play with quiters and noobies?

  • Robert Davidson

    I don’t know how pointless it is. On games where my team gets stomped, the opposing team’s top 2 players have 100 points or more on my team’s highest league score. Within the team the scores generally indicate placement unless you have a non-standard hangar.

  • Gil Gam

    Play all map is better for your skill

  • Heathen Cat

    There is no way in any universe that a team based ranking system using random players and equipment can indicate in any way what kind of player that you are individually. That’s why it’s pointless. You can be a really mediocre player and be pulled up in rankings by the efforts of others. Seen it, tested it, it happens. That’s bullhockey.

    In all my 47 years of gaming(I’m 52) I’ve never seen a random team based ranking system. Individual skill and accomplishment is the ONLY way to rate and rank players.

  • Heathen Cat

    You’re screwed then. I skipped only 1 map and got thrown in the LQ. And no amount of work(and that is what it has become) has gotten me out.

  • Robert Davidson

    The players aren’t random. They are players who are as close to your league score as are available. My score fluctuates about 100 points up or down from 2100 depending how well I play, how well my teammates play and the quality of the opposition. When my score is low I get to make some gold. When my score is high I learn what not to do next time from players who are better than I am. For me, this is a good thing. A more accurate score would not swing as far in either direction and I’d end up playing the same people and not learning as much as I do in the current system. In any case, the scoring seems good enough – the players in my matches generally belong there.
    I do notice that at slow times the range of league scores in a battle is wider than at popular times. If I play in the wee hours of the morning central time sometimes I end up on the slaughterhouse floor with some 2900 players on the other team.

  • Heathen Cat

    You’ve just admitted just how random they truly are. “… depending on how well I play, how well my teammates play and the quality of the opposition.” That is the very definition of random. You have no control at all over any of the other players, their equipment nor anything that the opposition does or has either. Random. Like rolling dice.
    Never contradict if you are just going to enforce the other person’s argument.

  • Robert Davidson

    There is an element of randomness in the result of the match – as you so triumphantly point out. That is the point of playing them. If player strength scores were so accurate that you could predict the result with certainty why would anyone play?! I thought your concern was about the matchmaking.

    The matchmaking is not statistically random. Please see algorithm described in article – that is not a random process. That algorithm keeps my league score in a 200 point band centered around 2100. Keeping my score in a range that is less than 10% of my total score indicates that it is doing a pretty good job of evaluating my performance. How much tighter do you want it to be? If it were tighter, would the game be more or less interesting?

    In any case Pixonic has given you the ability to completely eliminate randomness from your team: make some friends and squad up.

  • tomotaku123

    so why are all other bots getting new weps but not the hevies?

  • Heathen Cat

    I’ve already explained how irrational it is to rank players based on a random selection of players and equipment. Team based ranking is pointless. You can’t tell who the really good players are using that kind of system. I’ve seen a 2 slot level 30 player with a 130k damage average and max kills of 5 ranked as an Expert player. You think they got that ranking through any real ability of their own? Not likely. Improbable even. They were riding the luck train to the top. Random horsehockey.

    The only people happy with the ranking and matchmaking systems are those looking down from the top in their 11-12 upgraded machines. Throw them into even equipment pools and see how they do then. That’s what a majority out here want. Hanger based match making. Take the bots you have in your hanger(not your inventory) and average their sizes. Take the upgrades to those machines and average it out over the number of slots you have. Do the same to your equipment. You get an average that can be pitted against others with the same averages. Fair across the board. No idiotic algorithms needed. Simple mathematics. One thing it would encourage is even upgrading. If you didn’t and you dropped your most powerful bot first and got it killed off you’re left with your lesser equipment against what could be much better equipment than your own. But on average every match would be fairly balanced from the start. And you could use any of your equipment instead of just your heavy brawlers all the time.

    How about Champion light bot pilots? Or Expert heavy bot pilots? You’d give people more options and more recognition as skilled pilots. You could be ranked on your individual achievements and skills in bots you are good at in any level instead of lumped into a pile with mediocre pilots as is done at this time.

    And despite your last statement you still cannot eliminate randomness from the equation. You don’t control even your regular squadmates actions, bots they use or equipment. Or even how well they play from minute to minute. And who can say they actually squad with just the exact same 5 other people every single time they play anyways?

  • Arman Nazaryan
  • sani din

    how do i get out of the queue league? does it restart when league starts again on June 1st?

  • Nand Alinea

    it is a LEAGUE not solo ranking. as i remember, pixonic promotes a teambased game here. though i feel you.there should be another ranking and a different mm say, kill-death ratio?or beacon capping? . but at the end of the day, it is a matter of whether you play or not. if you dont like it, then dont play. i’m starting not to care for the ranking. just enjoying. but the pit (leaver/tanker) is still frustrating. you will be on the win/lose side based on your winning %. if you are winning too much, then you will be in the losing team next or the next after, at least before june 1st. just my opinion about the game here. no offense.

  • Dominic Claveau

    They are indeed bringing back the exact same issue that made them change league points distribution in the first place.

    But now, it’s even worse because it’s not even a zero sum anymore. Losing side has -45 points compared to the +39 points on winning side. In their first implementation it was:
    +7
    +3
    -4
    -10
    -15
    -20

    So now, at each rank where you lose points, you lose 1 or 2 more than in previous state.

    They’re really pushing players who care more about meta to play selfishly for damage only. It made lots of players complain till they fix it and now, they’re returning to dysfunctional play.

  • Heathen Cat

    The algorithm is crap apparently. I’m seeing players in silver and bronze with 11-12 bots and equipment who outgun their opponents and teammates by several magnitudes. These are the rank tankers that have been let out of the LQ to run amock amongst the lesser upgraded players. Is anyone going to dare to tell me that is fair and balanced matchmaking? These people can keep their rankings low just by playing just enough not to get relegated back into the LQ but not hard enough to help in any real fashion. That makes the current matchmaker and ranking system a huge stinking pile as far as those affected by these asshats is concerned. And that’s now most of us because if you haven’t seen these tanking asshats yet you will soon enough.

  • Nostradamus

    Been playing for over 11/2 years, thanks for advice noob

  • Gil Gam

    noob? Guys like you are unable to play all the map and dropped their team and it is me noob

  • Leontzel Leonte

    Need to be like this for losing teAm becouse on thr start of de game you see 5 pkayer on your teAM you ask your self.do i continui the game 5 against 6.wai??becouse you lose point playng or not

  • Tmoney Shot

    No, it’s AncilotsR4Pussys

  • Naval Kishore Borah

    Since the last 2 days or so, a 6k-8K player is pitted with 2k and 1K players. Most players simply bail out out or just get mauled within seconds. Not sure what was done in the back end. Raised it to War Robots, and waiting for their response.

  • Just the Tip

    LMFAO. You are my hero.

  • Jester Infester

    Yeah, What he said!

  • SK

    The incoming new rating points will be big disaster for a lot good guys who really play those game wholeheartly, if you lose and finish 6th, then you need to win 11 times in a row to even up if finish 6th. Based on my 3 years experience, most of time, if you win 1 or 2 times, then you would lose 5 to 10 times before you win again due to the unbalance matching. It is very hard to win more than 10 times steak unless you are in the champion leagues, even in champion league level, there are a lot of those guys losing very badly due to unbalanced and uneven matching. Therefore, the new rating is also making even more nightmare for those genuine players as there are still a lot of quitters, tankers would make the gameplay more suffering. Sometimes, a single battle may have more 1 quitter or tanker, you would have only 2 or 3 teammates fighting with you. Sometimes, even you have a good strong group of high level bots and weapons, you can end up in 6th position if the battle ends in less than 3 or 4 minutes and when you are trying to move to move a good location or trying to recapture beacons. It is hard to recapture the beacons when all 5 beacons are captured within 3 mins and the game ends within 15 secs if you have a team of inexperience guys. I m asking Pixonic to reconsider if the system starts to make decision only after 5 mins of play or no more bots to continue to fight.

  • Dwane Bowen

    corrected to 5 bots, not 6

  • Tim Coggins

    From emails that I have had with pix it is my understanding that when possible in the first 30 seconds of battle a “leaver” will be replaced. However, it is not always possible which is why you wind up with 5v6, 4v6 and even worse battles. I have suggested to pix that leavers that can not be replaced in a battle be penalized even further than just being placed in a leavers queue. My suggestion was a match that ends in a loss where a “leaver” could not be replaced should result in them taking the full brunt for the loss. So if you want to leave out because you don’t like a map that is fine. You just have to know that you are taking the chance that if you can not be replaced and the squad that you were placed on loses the battle you are subject to lose 55 ranking points. Quite honestly, I am not sure that is harsh enough. It should be double so that these players lose 110 ranking points. I have seen leavers from expert, master and champion rankings quit out on battles. It should hit them hard enough that they just don’t do it.

  • Mike

    I’m in expert too so sick of seeing 2 or 3 Ancilots marching down range that can take out 3-4 bots each easily.

  • Lee Kowalkowski

    Pah! If the game is won on territory, then points should be allocated depending on the beacon count. They should only reward damage inflicted when the game is won by destroying all enemy robots. That’s what I think would make things more interesting/fair.

  • Mr. Meeseeks

    That is a REALLY GOOD IDEA!!

  • Samuel Josim

    I like this idea too

  • Warhiet

    I’m a newer player, level twenty one, and still running a cossak. Why? Because I thought this game was about teamwork. Never mind the fact that messaging people in game is virtually impossible unless you invite them into the game. And frankly I’d rather message players whom already play. No, inboxes just seem to be for the junk mail and updates you send us. I can view that on facebook. My issue is how much this game is focused around solo play.

    You say this is all about teamwork but I’m getting penalized for capping beacons and kiting opponents into ambushes. I’m getting hammered by kill stealing when not in my cossak and losing a good number of kills to my team mates. I am losing matches because of random tankers and now being HEAVILY hammered for it. I am basically thrown into matches with people whom DESTROY anyone my rank and have bots a good two to three levels over mine and weapons two levels over that (And my bots are at five and six.)

    So…..where is this team play I was promised? Where is this progressive gameplay I was told about? Why am I getting hammered for thinking of my teammates? Why do I keep taking penalties for helping my team out or keep getting my chances for a kill taken from me by team mates when I whittle a freaking leo or damned death button Griffin down in a cossak or any other unit I’m using?

    Where’s the brotherly love here, mates? Am I missing the point of this game? Should I just grab four Griffins and say screw the rest and just pump things full of lead? I seem to be missing something here….

  • Cybertron2

    Sorry to say that, but I am really don’t know why your guys want to have more league points and move up to higher league? Maybe you want to be in the highest ranking system? If that, sorry and forget my comment.

    I only talk to people who just want to enjoy playing game. If you have a low level bots and weapons, just stay in low league, in your favor territory, in which you feel confident and comfortable. There’s no meaning if you have higher level stuffs and face with stronger enemies. Just stay in low league and upgrade your bots and weapons. This way will bring more fun and less pressure to you. The new matchmaking system is designed to balance your ability or performance with your league, at least it is the desire of the game’s developers. If you play better, you will move higher and face with stronger enemies. Then your win/lost ratio will be balanced. If you play worse, you will move down to lower league, then your win/lost ratio will be balanced again. But if you just to have some fun, less pressure, go down to even lower league and relax.

    If you are not in a clan and have no force to go to higher league, why don’t stay in low league and have some fun there?

  • Cybertron2

    Warhiet:
    I have some advices for you, as I am level 30 already. I am a solo player, same as you. My purpose when play this game is for fun and relax, not to take stress from it. So, keep it in mind when you choose bots, weapons and upgrade them. Don’t bother to create a 5 slots hangar with full of bots and weapons which need to upgrade. Play around a bit with some cheap bots andweapons to see which is your most favour style, such as snipper, beacon runner, medium range supporter, or knight fighter. When you decided which style you want to play, then choose your suitable weapons first, put it in a bot you can afford at this moment. For example, I choose to be a medium range fighter (about 500-600 m range). In this range, I choose 2xTulus and 2xPins and put it on my Griffin. I ONLY focus on upgrading these weapons, mainly upgrade my Tulus, and just upgrade my Pins a bit, keep in mind that there will be Dash bots released soon, and my plan is to move my 2xTulus to my new Dash bot. So there is no need to upgrade my pins and Grifin much, just upgrade them a bit (my pins are level 6, my Griffin is 7). Only keep upgrading my 2xTulus to level 12. That’s why my RBD becomes strong very fast and can fight very well even in Gold III.

    So, now I have a good bot with good weapons, good enough to play well in Silver I and sometimes in Gold III. Don’t care much about win nor gold as I don’t need much gold for 5th slot (although I accidentally got 4th slot already), premium bots … etc. Only play with my favourist RDB, when it dies I move to next battle. But normally it can stand until the battle end, because it is strong enough, and I play it quite well. And perhaps it is because a medium range supporter typically will last longer a knight fighter. After finishing upgrade my 2xTulus, I will start upgrade the 3rd Tulus, preparing for my Dash bot. When I have got it, just need to upgrade the bot itself, as I almost finished upgrade 3xTulus.

    If I want to move to another playing style, let’s say knight fighter, I will choose another bot I want, with suitble weapons, and only upgrade it. So, play and upgrade one by one will make you feel more relax, don’t have many things to upgrade in the same time, don’t need much gold for many premium weapons or bots, or for extra slot which is no need at the moment. Less stress, more fun please my buddy.

  • Pablo Perri

    As a player of HOTS, I would like to see rewards for all the “roles” in a team. I have been thinking and I have the following idea:

    Wining Side – Total point for Winning team is the same than now (39)

    Damage | 11 | 8 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1

    Beacons | 4 | 2 | 1

    Kills | 2 | 1

    Losing Side – Total point for Losing team is the same than now (-45)

    Damage | 5 | 3 | -6 | -13 | -20 | -24

    Beacons | 4 | 2 | 1

    Kills | 2 | 1

    This way the guys that help more to the team are more rewarded and the ones that do less more punished, and at the same time gives the importance that Pixonic need to give to the Damage (lets be honest is a business and they need to sell gold for waepons/bots/ faster upgrades). At the same time mantains the balance of points they have right now 39 potins for winning team and -45 for lossing team.

    The following shows how it would be the resulting points for some examples:

    Winning Losing
    1st dps AND 1st beacons 15 9
    1st dps AND 1st kills 13 7
    1st dps AND 2nd beacons 13 7
    2nd dps AND 1st beacons 12 7
    2nd dps AND 2nd beacons 10 5
    3rd dps AND 1st beacons 11 -2
    4th dps AND 1st beacons 7 -9
    5th dps AND 1st beacons 6 -16
    6th dps AND 1st beacons 5 -20

    It could also give some points to 1st and 2nd player with more damage absorbed in each team (doing the “tank” role or even “healer” role for bots that absorbed damage with ancile).
    By finally counting damage done to shields they could make more fair the post-battle screen scores. But since is their business, they could still avoid to count the damage done to shields as a way to reward premium weapons (that can destroy the shields faster or just ignore them) and the points distributions would be still more fair that it is right now.

    What do you thik guys?

  • Mark Jones

    Agreed.
    Hanger weapons level would cure a lot of the Unbalanced Matches I have been put into lately as well.
    I’m only at level 7,8 with my bots and I’m facing 11,12 bots in the field, how is that fair Pixonic? My rating was up to 72 and 4.1 until the Galahads,Lancelot’s and Multiple Carnage bots started appearing in a single game, I only use, 3 Leos, Doc, and a Rog in my line up and my rating went as low as 32 and 1.8. So yeh, enough of that mismatch crap, I bale when I get taken out in 3 or 4 shots, I’m not allowing the high level Clubbers the chance at another easy score, tanker squad or not I’ll live with until PIXONIC gets their act together. And no more investments (money wise) until they FIX THE DAMN problem.

    I know how you feel KARTAL, really.

  • Kyle Cummings

    Does Pixonic realize it’s not the people leaving the game that’s a problem as much as the ones that are stupid high in botblevel being in a league they shouldn’t. Where is the incentive for anyone to move to a higher league? You would have more players playing in a league they can handle and still win gold they deserve for being a stronger player. As it is now, huge players with lvl 10/10 & higher bots are killing in silver III league. Why would they want to move up and work harder to maybe not get as much gold for placing low. If you offered them more gold they might move up. Keep the reward the same as it is now for Gold league and move each league up or down by one from there. It’s called risk vs reward. If my reward is greater, I will risk more. Not sure what new system you have in mind but I thought I heard we can choose who we want to fight with us. We can do that already in squad. Your league system is broken and is basically worthless. No benefits for being in a higher league…very stupid. Getting experience points is worthless. My player level means nothing. Many level 30 players but bots range from lvl 6 -12. Moving up a player level offers me nothing. And giving losing players 1 less key is insulting too the players that won the match. A cool game but a very broken system.